Germany will remain a pillar of stability in Europe, despite the advance of the far-right on the political scene of the most powerful economy in the European Union, at a time when the European Union is looking for solutions to revive its competitiveness, and Berlin’s support for Ukraine will not follow a change of course, but will remain constant because the only solution for peace is not the one dictated by Russia, but the one that brings security to Ukraine and Europe. The assurances come from the ambassador of the Federal Republic of Germany in Romania, Peer Gebauer, and were expressed in an interview with CaleaEuropeană.ro on the occasion of the 34th anniversary of German Reunification and the 35th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. In the interview, the German diplomat also explained the security rationale behind Germany’s decision to introduce temporary border controls, which are a “much less invasive form of border control” than the Schengen external border, and emphasized that Berlin “worked hard” for Romania’s accession to Schengen because it is in Europe’s interest that this happens. Peer Gebauer also looked at bilateral relations, mentioning “a lot of potential” for cooperation “in the fields of energy and defense”. Regarding the election season in Romania, the German ambassador referred to the legacy of a Romania of trust in the EU and NATO of President Klaus Iohannis, who is at the end of his term in office, and emphasized that it is in the interest of Germany, Europe and Romania that the future leadership in Bucharest supports a “pro-European and pro-transatlantic course”.
CaleaEuropeană.ro: Mr. Ambassador, we meet at a time of celebration for your country, especially, but also to the benefit of Europe. 34 years since the German Reunification and 35 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Germany is seen as not just A pillar but THE pillar of European stability and prosperity. Therefore, when we see the far right winning or coming second in German regional elections and the shrinking of the federal coalition we tend to worry. Is it justified? Do we have something to worry about when it comes to German leadership in Europe?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: Indeed, the unification, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the opening of the Iron Curtain, are still up until today and for the future causes of joy and of pride for us in Germany and in Europe, because they showed that people can overcome dictatorships and move towards free, liberal and open societies. I think this is still a success we can be proud of. You’re right when you point out to the phenomenon of far right-wing parties gaining strength in Germany, in these regional elections that you have referred to, but also in many other countries in Europe. I believe it’s an expression of growing insecurity and unease about the many challenges that we have been facing over the last years: financial crisis, migration challenges, the pandemic, and now the brutal Russian aggression against Ukraine with all the implications, rising energy costs, etc. The rise of nationalistic right-wing parties is an expression of this uneasiness. At the same time, we see in Germany, but also across Europe, that the parties of the middle, the mainstream of the political arena is still the strongest part. We have no majorities for far right-wing parties. And there is a clear belief by all democratic parties that there is the need to continue a pro-European, pro-transatlantic course. This is true for Germany and the other countries that one could mention. So, you don´t need to worry. Of course, I understand that people ask questions, but Germany will remain a pillar of stability in Europe.
Draghi report: Europe no longer guaranteed to be a global industrial leader
CaleaEuropeană.ro: Nowadays, in the EU, we seem to have a new problem fixer – the Draghi report on the European competitiveness. The report was launched by the former Prime Minister of Italy and the former President of the ECB, together with the President of the Commission, Ursula von der Leyen. German reactions to the report were somehow diffused, depending on different ministries. And I want to know, how does Germany view the recommendations from the Draghi report, when it comes to defense, when it comes to regulation, to digital, to climate, to all the aspects in which Europe is lagging when it comes to energy, when it comes to the global competition with China and the US.
Dr. Peer Gebauer: I share the assessment in your question. Germany and Europe, all of us, we are facing many challenges. We tend to lose ground when it comes to competitiveness, whether it be vis-a-vis the US, China or other parts of the world, which is why we very strongly welcome the renewed focus on competitiveness. In this regard, the Draghi report is of utmost importance, and it is welcomed by Germany. Because competitiveness is the base to move ahead in Europe, and to move ahead not by simply adjusting minor things here and there, but by strongly changing course towards more competitive-oriented policies. In this sense, the Draghi report is very much welcomed. The areas that he’s focusing on in his report, strong innovation, the combination of a green transition with a stronger competitiveness, a strong focus on security, and at the same time resilience, are the key areas. Obviously, it’s a comprehensive document and a very thoughtful one. There are many individual proposals and ideas that now will have to be discussed in the European framework. One issue, obviously, will be the question of financing this renewed focus on competitiveness. Of course, we will see discussions. I don’t see this as a weakness, I think it’s a strength in Europe that we have the possibility to discuss. And by discussing, by striving for compromise, we’ve always managed to take everybody on board. I think this will be also the case when it comes to implementing the ideas of the Draghi report. So once again, we welcome very much to have this report and we are eager to now start into a speedy discussion on how to best take up the ideas and how to move forward in this regard.
CaleaEuropeană.ro: If we look at the German leadership, but also at the German industry when it comes to the issue of competitiveness, of strategic sovereignty and so on, Germany has a term that it says we want economic security as a broader umbrella. Under this position, what role do you see that Germany should play in shaping the future of Europe, using maybe this Draghi report as a starting point?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: Economic security is a keen interest of not only Germany, but I assume pretty much every country on our continent and in the world. Indeed, we have put a strong emphasis on securing what we have achieved in Germany, in Europe, in decades of economic growth, of prosperity, of peace. We now feel and realize that a lot of what has made us strong is now under heavy pressure. When it comes to our industrial base in Europe, we realize that we have no guarantee for the future that we will continue to be leaders in this or that segment and area. So the focus of today’s time, I think, is not only on security, but maybe even more on making sure that we regain our strength. That we regain our competitiveness. That we manage to go through the green transition – which, of course, is relevant and decisive when it comes to the future of our planet -, that we go through this transition by keeping our strength and our base. Because only then we will manage to shape the future in a positive way. Security is one angle, but I think you might add to it the economic innovation, the economic change that is necessary, the shaping of a transition which is necessary and that implies that we also take bold and courageous decisions, sometimes also take risks. Just leaning back and saving what we have will not do the trick for the next years to come.
German border controls due to security threats: a “much less invasive form of control” than at Schengen external border
CaleaEuropeană.ro: On this part, I must confess that we have seen in recent weeks Germany on the spotlight on different topics, and one which is also important for Romania is of course the issue of internal security and migration. Germany has recently reintroduced border controls due to migration concerns, drawing criticism from Poland and Greece that is has abolished the Schengen Area. Could you elaborate on the reasons behind this decision and how it fits within the broader EU framework for internal security?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: Let me start by saying that Germany knows and fully believes in the need for a European answer to cross-border challenges within Europe. We are very much benefiting from an openness on our continent and that’s why we always put a strong focus on finding European solutions. That is why we were very supportive of the adoption of the Common European Asylum System that has been agreed on recently and is now to be implemented. What we’ve seen in the recent weeks in Germany, the reintroduction of border controls, has to do with the fact that there have been many challenges for Germany and for the German society in the last months and years, mainly security threats. We had terrible terror attacks recently that were committed in the context of irregular migration. We have seen a very heavy burden on the financial situation of communities, also on the capacity to house refugees. We have right now 3.5 million refugees in Germany, that’s quite a high number, even for a large country like my country. It’s almost four percent of the population, this gives you an indication how challenging it is. It was perceived to be necessary, and I agree with that, that we temporarily take additional measures. The border controls that you’ve been referring to are not something new. We have seen these frequently. For example, during the Euro 2024 Football Championship. The same is true for the Olympic Games in Paris. Germany, and in the case of Paris, France, introduced temporary border control simply to manage the flow of fans, of supporters. There is a strong angle of security involved. Why? Because by controlling the borders you make sure that terrorist threats, organized crime or human traffickers cannot just freely move across the borders. In this sense, the recent decision by the German government has proven to be quite effective and for example a number of human traffickers have been caught and irregular crossings have been stopped in this sense. The border controls are not to be compared with the border controls you still have, for example, between Romania and Hungary. There you have a border where everybody has to stop, every truck is checked, every visitor and passenger has to show the passport. When we talk about border controls between Germany and the neighboring countries, it’s a broader network of making sure that you have a better understanding of who’s crossing, and only on an individual base, people are stopped and checked. In this sense, I think it’s a much less invasive form of border controls than you have at the outside border of the Schengen area.
Romania deserves to be in the Schengen area. Germany has “worked hard” for this goal, which is “in Europe’s interest”, “not an act of mercy”
CaleaEuropeană.ro: And it’s based, probably, as you were developing, on intelligence cooperation and sharing information within the Schengen area with other countries.
Dr. Peer Gebauer: Absolutely, this is a key element also when it comes to how to best involve our neighbors. It only functions if we closely cooperate with our neighbors. German politicians in charge have started this process of closely liaising with our neighboring countries. We have found ways to make sure that we explain better, that there is no winner and loser in this game, but that we all join forces to tackle challenges that concern us all. Because it’s not a German problem or a Polish problem or an Austrian problem alone. There are issues that affect us all in Europe and that’s why cooperation is always key. I wouldn’t see these measures that have been introduced recently as aimed against anyone. But they’re actually meant to be embedded in the European approach to tackle the challenging question of irregular migration. With regard to the Schengen area, I think you’ve implied it also in your question, what does it mean for Romania and how do we move forward there? Let me just reiterate that Germany continues to unwaveringly support Romania and Bulgaria when it comes to the lifting of the land border controls. I’ve said it before, but I would like to repeat it: Romania has done all its homework. Romania deserves to be in the Schengen area and not to be restricted in this regard. That’s why we will continue to fully support Romania. I believe that we will soon see how the new Austrian government will position itself and this will hopefully open doors also with regard to the goal of Romania, which we fully support.
CaleaEuropeană.ro: Do you see more windows of opportunities or potential obstacles when it comes to fulfilling this last piece of fully entering Schengen by Romania and Bulgaria? Because we still have land border controls, we’ve managed to enter the Schengen area by air and by sea.
Dr. Peer Gebauer: It is a great success that the sea and air border controls have been lifted and I would like to congratulate Romania on that. But yes, the land border issue is still a pressing one. I tend to be optimistic, which is why I say: yes, I see more opportunities and less obstacles. As a diplomat you always must be a believer in possibilities and I can only compliment those in charge here in Romania on taking a very prudent, professional and clear stance when it comes to negotiating with the partners. I think this will pay off. Although we have no guarantee I remain more an optimist on this topic.
CaleaEuropeană.ro: On this part, do you feel that you as a major partner of Romania can do something more than you already did? I’m asking you this because probably this topic of Romania and Bulgaria joining Schengen would not have been that high on the table if it wouldn’t have been for Chancellor Scholz’s speech in Prague.
Dr. Peer Gebauer: I agree. He publicly stated two years ago that he was clearly in favor of a speedy accession of Romania and Bulgaria into the Schengen area. So yes, Germany can take some credit for having been an active supporter. And active means not that when the decision is up for a vote we raise our hand in favor of Romania, but that Germany continuously worked hard towards all the partners to achieve this goal for Romania. And why? Because Romania deserves it and because it is in the interest of Germany and of Europe to complete the Schengen area in this regard. It’s not an act of mercy, but it’s in the interest of all of us. Germany will continue to be actively supportive. If there’s a way to be helpful also when it comes to convincing those that are still not yet convinced, Germany will do its part.
There will be no “change in the German course of action” in supporting Ukraine. The only possible peace solution, the one that brings “peace and security to Europe and to Ukraine in particular”
CaleaEuropeană.ro: This subject of Romania and Bulgaria coming closer to Schengen was also a strategic decision after Romania played a very important role in helping Ukraine, as also Germany did. This moves me to the other topic, one that also Germany is somehow in the spotlight, because we know that Germany has been a strong supporter of Ukraine during the ongoing conflict, despite being criticized for a slower pace in delivering military help and the recent reluctant position on sending long range missiles with which Ukraine can strike military targets on Russia’s territory. What has changed in Germany’s approach to this support since the war began, and what will remain constant?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: What we have seen right at the beginning of the Russian aggression against Ukraine is a clear commitment of Germany to do whatever it takes and as long as it takes to support Ukraine, in close liaison and cooperation with all our allies and partners. This is of utmost importance because we face a Russia which is not merely striving to conquer parts of Ukraine and then will be satisfied and stop. Russia has publicly declared on several occasions that it wants to turn back the clock, that it wants to re-establish the world order of the Cold War, which means that not only Ukraine is in danger. But also the ability to choose one‘s own fate is endangered for Romania and the other Central and Eastern European countries by Russia saying that it wants to turn back the clock. If you want to avoid that Russia has a say, for example, on the future of Romania’s NATO membership, then we must stop Russia and we must do everything for Putin not to be successful in his war against Ukraine. Simply hoping for it to stop would not help, it would simply prolong the conflict, so it is a wise and right approach by Germany, Romania and all its partners and allies to support Ukraine the best way we can. You’ve pointed out the fact, and I agree, that Germany has been a very strong supporter of Ukraine in these last two and a half years. We are indeed the second largest donor militarily, but also regarding other help, humanitarian goods, financial support and so on and so forth. The same is true for Romania. I applaud and praise the recent decision to give a Patriot system to Ukraine. This is literally saving lives and supporting a partner and neighbor in need and that’s something that cannot be appreciated high enough. What will we see in the future, as you’re referring also to the debate about long-range weapons delivery or the agreement to use those within the core land of Russia? You have, as a political leader these days, very complex decisions to make. You must take into consideration what is available, what do I need for the defense of my own country, of NATO territory, what effects will my decisions have. The German Chancellor and the German government have always publicly stated that it’s most relevant to liaise closely with our partners, not to have our unity of support for Ukraine somehow be dismantled. The Chancellor puts a great emphasis on closely liaising with the partners, particularly of course with the US, France, UK. You’ve seen this when the debate about the battle tanks came up and Germany acted in concert with the other allies by delivering the tanks. I think this approach is very understandable and this is also marking the debate about the use of long-range weapons. From outside it’s often very difficult to have the full picture on what will happen, but I remain very convinced that wise decisions will be taken, decisions in the interest of Ukraine, of Europe, of Germany. These decisions are on the table every day and there’s a development we have been seeing over the last two years in terms of what has been delivered. I can only express my understanding for a prudent and sober approach which does not rush into quick or hasty decisions, without coordinating closely with our allied partners.
CaleaEuropeană.ro: Practically, Germany pleads for a more coordinated and allied decision not on bilateral or lower level?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: Germany is a great supporter of this approach which we have seen in the last years, and which has made our Western answer to the Russian aggression, I believe, a strong one. I think we will continue to act this way, this will be the German position. And, I remain very sure that there will not be a change in the German course of action as you’ve asked in your question, but a continuation in our comprehensive support for Ukraine.
CaleaEuropeană.ro: In an interview for the German Public Radio, Chancellor Scholz spoke about a future peace conference between Ukraine and Russia and I quote: “I believe that now is the moment when we must discuss how we get out of this war situation faster than the current impression is”. How should we interpret this and how can we establish that we have reached that moment?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: What he said, of course, speaks for itself, so there is no need for me to interpret him. But we all realize that this war having taken place already two and a half years has claimed many victims. We see that you have no guarantee that Ukraine can continue this courageous fight without limits forever. We also sense that there are political developments here or there and elections that bring insecurity on where we will be standing in the next two, three, four years. I think it’s wise, and that’s why it’s right what the Chancellor said, to do as much as we can to see if there is a peaceful way out of this war. But at the same time, and the Chancellor makes this clear every time he expresses his views on this Russian aggression against Ukraine, we cannot settle for a dictated peace, dictated by Russia, a peace on Russia’s terms. This would not bring peace and liberate Ukraine. It would make Ukraine a Russian dependency. Merely stopping the fighting at this moment would not give any guarantee that the fighting would not continue at the later stage after Russia has regained its military strength and capacity. Whatever solution we are working for, it must be a solution that brings stable peace and security to Europe and to Ukraine in particular. The hope of some people who say if you just call it quits and let the weapons be quiet then we’ll have peace again, this hope is naive. Russia will not stop. We have seen it in the past: After the previous aggressions of Russia, the annexation of the Crimea and then the invasion into the Donbas, the efforts of solving the conflict were only valid for some time, while Russia used the time to rebuild its troops, its military capacities and then again waged a full-fledged aggression. We must find a way of finding peace, but one that is not leading to the conflict breaking out again, but leading to a stable peace.
Defense and energy, the main pillars of increased cooperation Germany – Romania
CaleaEuropeană.ro: Nonetheless, the conflict that Russia waged against Ukraine has been a wake-up call for us in terms of defense and in terms of war economy as many European leaders already said. If we move from the European spectrum, the help for Ukraine and moving towards the bilateral relation between Germany and Romania, we could say that somehow Romania and Germany have responded to that call when it comes to cooperation, when it comes to joint European financing for different types of weapons and so on. And moving to this part, we know that this bilateral relationship between Germany and Romania has grown stronger in recent years. What are the key areas where you see further growth, particularly in the economic and security sectors?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: The bilateral relations between Germany and Romania are indeed as close and, I would say, as important as never before. We are allies and partners in NATO, in the EU and we have broadened the cooperation and the exchanges on all levels. On the very top level of our political leaders, with our Chancellor having visited Romania twice in the last two years, our Federal President having been here twice in the last years, our Foreign Minister also having been here twice, as well. This is a density of political contacts we have not seen at any stage before. That’s a positive development, and one that is very important, because Romania and Germany are very much in sync when it comes to analyzing the situation and have a great potential to broaden cooperation. This is what you’ve been referring to with your question, the cooperation areas where we can even intensify our going together. I see a lot of potential in the field of energy and defense. Why Energy? Because Romania is home to so many different energy sources, conventional and renewable ones and at the same time, is located at the crossroads of energy lanes, pipelines and connections between the Asian continent and the rest of Europe. I am very much convinced Romania will play a crucial role as an energy provider and energy hub for Europe. And given the energy needs that we have in Germany with our industry, it’s an obvious opportunity we can tap into to broaden this energy cooperation.
CaleaEuropeană.ro: We could consider this energy cooperation as the future rising star within the bilateral relationship?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: I’m sure it will be a major pillar of our bilateral relations. I’m very positive, because it will complement the already existing broadness of our cooperation in the automotive sector, in retail and so many other areas where we very closely cooperate. Germany, as you know, is the largest investor and the largest trade partner for Romania and we both benefit tremendously from this partnership. The second area is certainly the defense industry that you have also mentioned in your question. We see a tremendous need for Europe to beef up its capacities to defend ourselves and we have spoken about Ukraine. Let me reiterate just once more, it’s about helping Ukraine but it’s not an act of mercy. It’s about also securing our liberty and to protect our open societies against the Russian aggression. Anybody who believes that Russia would stop after conquering Ukraine is obviously wrong and naive. Russia will continue. We need to make sure that we strengthen our defense capacities. The only thing that will stop Putin is his realization that he will not be able to do any harm in Europe and against European interests, including Moldova. We need to strengthen our capacities, our defense industry. A lot of programs have been set on track in this regard. The European defense industry plan and strategy, that are just being debated in Brussels and implemented, indicate where we are heading. The Commission will put a strong focus on this area, and you have rightly pointed out that there are already programs where European money can be used for joint ventures of European partners. Germany and Romania are also benefiting from these programs. There are several projects involving German defense industry companies and Romania. We are working hard on them to make these come to life in a sense, to see German-Romanian corporations producing goods such as propellent powder, ammunition, counter-UAV, air defence, tanks etc. here in Romania. This would be excellent news in terms of business opportunities. It would be excellent news in terms of also having technology transfer and establishing Romania as a defense industry hub. And it would be excellent news when it comes to making sure that Europe is strong enough to defend itself.
Klaus Iohannis’ legacy: A reliable, pro-Western and pro-Atlantic Romania/ Pro-European and pro-transatlantic candidates are in our and Romania’s interest
CaleaEuropeană.ro: You gave us some interesting headlines when it comes to German and Romanian cooperation and coming to the last question, we know that Romania is heading towards a significant political change after the upcoming elections. I’m saying significant political change because we have both presidential and parliamentary elections. The presidential era of President Iohannis will come to its end after two mandates allowed by the Constitution. How do you foresee this transition shaping Romania’s relationships with the EU, NATO and particularly with Germany? And in what ways do you expect Romania’s new leadership to approach its commitments within NATO, the EU and Germany?
Dr. Peer Gebauer: It’s an interesting year for Romania, indeed, with many elections that have taken place, that will take place towards the end of the year and of course we are closely following. Romania, for the last years, has been in the international context a very stable and reliable partner in the EU, in the transatlantic alliance. And it is certainly part of the legacy of President Iohannis that he shaped this stable course and that he stood for a reliable and pro-western, pro-Atlantic Romania. The change will be coming at the end of the year, and we believe that there will be not a change with regard to Romania´s course of action within the EU and the transatlantic alliance. Of course, I have no idea who will win the presidential race as there are a lot of contenders. And I cannot foresee how the parliamentary elections will evolve. But we have a very good feeling about pretty much all of the candidates standing for a pro-European, pro-transatlantic course, which is necessary, which is in our interest, and which is in the interest of Romania. We are rather relaxed about the specific outcome of the elections, because we believe that it is the choice of the Romanian people, no matter whom they vote for, no matter what party they vote for, that it is the choice of the Romanian voters to stay on track of this pro-European, pro-NATO course also in the future.
